I'm sensing I'll be looking up a lot of the references! I was really struck by this one line:
With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself on his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Not being very well-versed in ancient Roman history, I looked Cato up, and (from Wikipedia):
According to Plutarch, Cato attempted to kill himself by stabbing himself with his own sword, but failed to do so due to an injured hand. Plutarch wrote:
Cato did not immediately die of the wound; but struggling, fell off the bed, and throwing down a little mathematical table that stood by, made such a noise that the servants, hearing it, cried out. And immediately his son and all his friends came into the chamber, where, seeing him lie weltering in his own blood, great part of his bowels out of his body, but himself still alive and able to look at them, they all stood in horror. The physician went to him, and would have put in his bowels, which were not pierced, and sewed up the wound; but Cato, recovering himself, and understanding the intention, thrust away the physician, plucked out his own bowels, and tearing open the wound, immediately expired.
I've never read Moby Dick before, so I'm definitely curious to see if the second part of this story comes into play at all. If taking to the ship is the piercing, then what is the defiant finishing of the task by hand?
I'm having a terrible time seeing Ishmael's crush on Queequeg as purely 19th-century manly friendship. In fact, shipmates, I ship it with the heat of a thousand try-pots.
I guess I just skimmed by the Cato reference as a casual allusion to suicide and didn't think about it, but you're right, it's an interesting example to use.
(I have a thought, but I don't know if you want spoilers or not).
I love the prologue that's just "every quote about whales Melville could find," and the little encomium to the Sub-Sub Librarian.
Now that I'm reading Moby-Dick for a second time, all the ponderous and trivial whale quotes bundled together at the beginning seems to work a little like the dumb-show they do before the play in Hamlet: a slightly more abstract capsule version of the book you're about to read.
How does everyone feel about Ishmael as a narrator at this point?
I love how Ishmael was all reluctant to get in bed with Queequeg and then when he woke up with Queequeg's arms around him "in the most loving and affectionate manner". Definitely shipping it!
I admit that I could do without the description of how savage Queequeg is, it's pretty uncomfortable, but I'm aware the book isn't that recent...
On the other hand, I love seeing stuff from Ishmael's point of view, for example the dandies, it's like hearing modern people talk about hipsters! :D
Random quotes I liked:
- And the women of New Bedford, they bloom like their own red roses. - Chapter 6 I literally bookmarked this line and added a note that said "Awww!" because that's unexpectedly sweet.
- Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance. Methinks that in looking at things spiritual, we are too much like oysters observing the sun through the water, and thinking that thick water the thinnest of air. Methinks my body is but the lees of my better being. In fact take my body who will, take it I say, it is not me. And therefore three cheers for Nantucket; and come a stove boat and stove body when they will, for stave my soul, Jove himself cannot. - Chapter 7
All in all, I'm enjoying this book way more than I thought I would! I'm also reading it in my first language, if I'd read it in English I would've never got past the first chapter
PS: how do you pronounce Queequeg's name? I've been calling him quee-keg in my head but I have no clue if it's the correct way :P
I don't think it's much of a spoiler, if you haven't been completley walled off from the cultural osmosis: If we are using both parts of the Cato suicide metaphor, maybe the narrative itself is the defiant finishing? Ishmael spilling his guts, as it were, about what happened on the Pequod?
I've been saying Kwee-kweg, but I don't know if that's right. A thing you might not know if you're ESL--because I only found out recently--the wrong name that Bilbad calls him, "Quohog" or "Quahog," is a delicious type of clam. And it's pronounced "ko-hog." /cool story bro
About Ishmael's descriptions of Queequeg--I'm far less bothered by that than (for example) the narrator's descriptions of Uncle Tom in Uncle Tom's Cabin, which are full of Words Nice People Don't Say Anymore. I find that narrator condescending and obnoxious. Now Ishmael keeps thinking these racist things that society has taught him--but Queegqueg's awesome is beyond Ishmael's powers to resist. Even when Ishmael is going "yuck, savages," he always ends up going "but Queequeg" and then deciding to go with the happy medium, namely, "yay Queequeg."
I have had a large glass of wine and cannot promise that this makes sense.
Ishmael's affectionate scorn for the sub-sub is one of my favorite parts of what we read this week. Even wine can't warm him, not at all like Ishmael, that personification of manly virility. When Ishmael feels sad he takes to the sea and quaffs with sailors (who for some reason are kind of awkward around him idk why.) Not like these sub-sub librarians who are basically a human ctrl+F key. A mopey one.
I also love the Hawthorne-drop in the middle of that section. If Hawthorne exists in this universe, does that mean Melville is also there, writing him love letters somewhere? I can't decide if it was just name-dropping a friend or an intentional breaking-of-suspension-of-disbelief. Melville always strikes me as the kind of writer who likes to mess around with the distance between writer-narrator-reader so I'm somewhat inclined to guess the latter.
Ishmael is my favorite narrator. I mean, I wouldn't want to be friends with him because he DOES. NOT. SHUT. UP. But if you're in the right mood, it's fun to immerse yourself in his weirdness. He has kind of an off-the-wall sense of humor, but he's also so earnest about everything.
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dickalong2016-01-03 05:22 pm
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(Anonymous) 2016-01-04 01:17 am (UTC)(link)With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself on his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Not being very well-versed in ancient Roman history, I looked Cato up, and (from Wikipedia):
According to Plutarch, Cato attempted to kill himself by stabbing himself with his own sword, but failed to do so due to an injured hand. Plutarch wrote:
Cato did not immediately die of the wound; but struggling, fell off the bed, and throwing down a little mathematical table that stood by, made such a noise that the servants, hearing it, cried out. And immediately his son and all his friends came into the chamber, where, seeing him lie weltering in his own blood, great part of his bowels out of his body, but himself still alive and able to look at them, they all stood in horror. The physician went to him, and would have put in his bowels, which were not pierced, and sewed up the wound; but Cato, recovering himself, and understanding the intention, thrust away the physician, plucked out his own bowels, and tearing open the wound, immediately expired.
I've never read Moby Dick before, so I'm definitely curious to see if the second part of this story comes into play at all. If taking to the ship is the piercing, then what is the defiant finishing of the task by hand?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-04 01:41 am (UTC)(link)ROAD TRIP!
(Anonymous) 2016-01-05 03:44 pm (UTC)(link)https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/01/05/new-bedford-whaling-museum-host-annual-moby-dick-reading-marathon/2C8B2r2XYPqe7QifhC8e7L/story.html
Re: ROAD TRIP!
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 03:15 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 03:20 am (UTC)(link)(I have a thought, but I don't know if you want spoilers or not).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 03:36 am (UTC)(link)Now that I'm reading Moby-Dick for a second time, all the ponderous and trivial whale quotes bundled together at the beginning seems to work a little like the dumb-show they do before the play in Hamlet: a slightly more abstract capsule version of the book you're about to read.
How does everyone feel about Ishmael as a narrator at this point?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)I'm also a sucker for unreliable narrators...and though it's early days yet, I have hopes.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)I admit that I could do without the description of how savage Queequeg is, it's pretty uncomfortable, but I'm aware the book isn't that recent...
On the other hand, I love seeing stuff from Ishmael's point of view, for example the dandies, it's like hearing modern people talk about hipsters! :D
Random quotes I liked:
- And the women of New Bedford, they bloom like their own red roses. - Chapter 6
I literally bookmarked this line and added a note that said "Awww!" because that's unexpectedly sweet.
- Methinks we have hugely mistaken this matter of Life and Death. Methinks that what they call my shadow here on earth is my true substance. Methinks that in looking at things spiritual, we are too much like oysters observing the sun through the water, and thinking that thick water the thinnest of air. Methinks my body is but the lees of my better being. In fact take my body who will, take it I say, it is not me. And therefore three cheers for Nantucket; and come a stove boat and stove body when they will, for stave my soul, Jove himself cannot. - Chapter 7
All in all, I'm enjoying this book way more than I thought I would! I'm also reading it in my first language, if I'd read it in English I would've never got past the first chapter
PS: how do you pronounce Queequeg's name? I've been calling him quee-keg in my head but I have no clue if it's the correct way :P
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-09 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)(Ishmael is one of my favorite narrators of all time).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-11 02:16 am (UTC)(link)I like that, and I could totally see Melville doing it. He does love his foreshadowing.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-11 02:29 am (UTC)(link)About Ishmael's descriptions of Queequeg--I'm far less bothered by that than (for example) the narrator's descriptions of Uncle Tom in Uncle Tom's Cabin, which are full of Words Nice People Don't Say Anymore. I find that narrator condescending and obnoxious. Now Ishmael keeps thinking these racist things that society has taught him--but Queegqueg's awesome is beyond Ishmael's powers to resist. Even when Ishmael is going "yuck, savages," he always ends up going "but Queequeg" and then deciding to go with the happy medium, namely, "yay Queequeg."
I have had a large glass of wine and cannot promise that this makes sense.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-12 02:01 am (UTC)(link)I also love the Hawthorne-drop in the middle of that section. If Hawthorne exists in this universe, does that mean Melville is also there, writing him love letters somewhere? I can't decide if it was just name-dropping a friend or an intentional breaking-of-suspension-of-disbelief. Melville always strikes me as the kind of writer who likes to mess around with the distance between writer-narrator-reader so I'm somewhat inclined to guess the latter.
Ishmael is my favorite narrator. I mean, I wouldn't want to be friends with him because he DOES. NOT. SHUT. UP. But if you're in the right mood, it's fun to immerse yourself in his weirdness. He has kind of an off-the-wall sense of humor, but he's also so earnest about everything.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 02:00 am (UTC)(link)